OLD LYME WATER POLLUTION CONTROL AUTHORITY COMMISSION
UNAPPROVED REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Thursday, November 17, 2011
Second floor conference Room
Memorial Town Hall
52 Lyme St.
Old Lyme, CT 06371
Agenda Items
- Call to Order. Chairman D. Tolchinski called the meeting to order at 7:30 pm. Guests included First Selectwoman-elect Bonnie Reemsnyder, Selectwoman –elect Mary Jo Nosal, Old Lyme residents Ed Butcher, Steve Dix and Gary Yuknac. Those present and voting members were Chairman D. Tolchinski, Vice-chairman K. Czarnecki, Secretary- Treasurer L. Grogan and Members R. Breunig, A. Eberly, G. James and M. Roberts. Alternate Member present was L. Russo. Absent were Member D. McFadden and Alternate Member D. Redfield. Also present were B. Curtis WPCA Engineer, N. Dubicki WPCA Attorney, R. Rose WPCA Sanitarian and J. Flowers WPCA Assistant Sanitarian.
- Approval of October 20, 2011 meeting minutes. -- Chairman Tolchinski asked for a motion to approve the minutes from the last meeting. A motion was made by M. Roberts and seconded by G. James. A discussion followed with R. Breunig suggesting that listening to the tape to amend the minutes. Chairman Tolchinski stated that it’s not possible to listen to the tape as we record over the previous recording, however if you want to bring your own recorder that’s okay. A. Eberly asked if we could make a copy. The Chairman said that wasn’t possible. R. Breunig stated that the minutes said “heated discussion” but
asked J. Flowers to state his question. J. Flowers had asked the Chairman for his guidance as how he should proceed with his job – either the State interpretation or your interpretation of the State Health Code? How do you want me to conduct my business? Chairman followed with a reference to the State Code. R. Breunig asked about copies of the voice records of previous meeting minutes. The Chairman responded that he had asked the previous WPCA Clerk Sue Bartlett for copies of the records and was told there were none and the Chairman stated that they were not required as per conversation with First Selectman Tim Griswold. Chairman D. Tolchinski stated that for all 14 years as he has been a member of Old Lyme WPCA there are very few documents of WPCA minutes, or records for each of these years left. But starting from January of 2011, there is every record of the minutes on WPCA WEB Site. R. Breunig asked the Chairman D. Tolchinski if he want to
have better voice recorder that could be possible to easily make copies of the voice records. Chairman responded that he agrees with him, and he has asked Ruth Roach and Tim Griswold that WPCA should have voice recorder as the other Commissions have. They were saying that that is perfectly all right. A vote was taken to approve the minutes and it was a tie: 3 yes, 3 no. Chairman Tolchinski voted to approve and the motion passed 4-3-0. A. Eberly asked what will happen to the minutes of this meeting. The Chairman said he hoped to have better equipment. At this time he recognized First Selectwoman-elect B. Reemsnyder and said he hoped things would change in the future and new administration will help WPCA to have appropriate voice recorder. R. Breunig asked why the record of votes didn’t have some of the discussion in it. He would send an email to the Chairman expressing concerns and then the issues of his concern would be included
in the next document. The Chairman explained the necessity of creating Record Of Votes, a document within 48 hours after the meeting in accordance to FOI rules and the Meeting Minutes within 7 days after the meeting. R. Breunig said don’t hide behind FOI, the Chairman stated that perhaps R. Breunig didn’t understand and he explained again. Clerk Kavalgian explained the documents he prepared, the time constraints and the difficulty in preparation . R. Breunig stated he was unfamiliar with this sort of procedure.
- Chairman’s Report -- Clerk Kavalgian read aloud the Chairman’s Letter dated November 10, 2011(sic.).
To: Leaders and Land Use Officials of the Town of Old Lyme, Members of Committees, commissions and Boards.
Re: Informational Presentation on Community Sewage Systems
On December 6, 2011 the Old Lyme Water Pollution Control authority will be sponsoring an informal presentation on community sewage systems. The presentation will be held at the Town Hall at 7:00 pm.
Your attendance would be greatly appreciated as this topic will have an impact on the Town of Old Lyme as well as town boards and commissions beyond the Water Pollution Control Authority.
The topic of community sewage systems pertains to a common sewage system that may serve two or more residences in separate structures which are not connected to a municipal sewer system which is connected to a sewage treatment plant and discharges treated wastewater into a river.
Either of these options may be considered as a solution to existing surface water and ground water sewage pollution problems in Old Lyme and to serve a cluster of homes with failing septic systems that cannot be repaired on individual lots due to poor soil conditions and severe lot size restrictions.
Poor soil conditions would include having very shallow depths to groundwater for extended periods of the year, shallow soil cover over bedrock or tight soils with very slow percolation rates. Severe lot size restrictions pertain to lots that are so small that there physically is not enough room to accommodate a proper size health code compliant leach field system area.
The Old Lyme Water Pollution Control Authority would appreciate your input and feedback on this topic as we move forward with studying wastewater management options for the Town with a goal of protecting the quality of our surface water and ground water resources.
Dimitri Tolchinski, Chairman
Old Lyme Water Pollution Control Authority
K. Czarnecki asked if there is pollution in Old Lyme? The Chairman stated yes there is pollution in Old Lyme. K. Czarnecki asked where this is documented? The Chairman stated he had documented proof that the pollution existed. K. Czarnecki asked if the letter above was for approval ? No the Chairman stated that it was already sent out.
As of now 420 houses in Old Lyme – Point of Woods already have sewers. Old Lyme Shores and Old Colony Beach have finished their studies and could have sewers also. It might happen that all the Beaches and Rogers Lake would need to have sewers too.
Therefore if we offer community septic systems instead of sewers it will benefit our entire town.
WPCA Town of Old Lyme
- Roger Breunig – Report on the properties with high water tables and small lot sizes. Determination of Areas of Special Concern (Ground water table less than three feet below ground surface).
Mr. Breunig reported about Hawk’s Nest, Sound View, Old Colony and Rogers Lake area about ground to water depths. He referred to a map on display of these areas noting data from 1998. In Hawks Nest the sample size had 26 data points at various test locations. The average was 4.9 feet. The state standard is 18 inches or 1.5 feet. The lowest in Hawks Nest was 3.16 feet. No areas violated the State regulations. He stated that over time the findings were consistent and that he concluded that Hawks Nest was in
excellent shape. Similar testing in Sound View and Old Colony showed Sound View below State requirements and Old Colony needed additional test sites. He also wanted to look at scum, sludge, number of bedrooms, tank size and got additional data from pump out tickets. Scum readings were from 2 to 10 inches and most of the time less than 6 inches, sludge from 10 to 15 inches and most of the time less than 6 inches and tank sizes from 500 to 1000 gallons. He cited numbers of various structures but despite lot sizes there were no violations. The measurements were acceptable. A. Eberly asked how many were year-round homes but time constraints prevented him from getting that information. What does it mean? We don’t have a problem and to validate this, we need more test sites for a better understanding of what we are doing. The Chairman thanked Mr. Breunig for his work.
The Chairman referred to charts presented at the last meeting regarding test wells with top ground to water below 3 feet. R. Breunig and A. Eberly didn’t understand the Chairman’s statement as the state standard if 18 inches. R. Breunig asked J. Flowers if he understood the Chairman’s statement and he didn’t. The Chairman asked B. Curtis to explain. He said this data is from Sound View well #4. The depth to ground water is site specific. Wells may be in different locations, one well being higher than another. The depth averages 1.8 feet from years 2000 to 2008. J. Flowers said the number that matters is 1.5 feet not 1.8 feet because that is the State code. He explained further the rules he goes by to set a septic system.
The septic system has to be 18 inches above ground water to begin instillation. There are systems that will fit in 18 inches. K. Czarnecki asked who says we are polluting (1:07:42) the State or local health department? He stated that we had this discussion two months ago. A. Eberly said she spoke with Bob Scully and that Old Lyme does not have ground water pollution. She said further that areas of special concern should not be based on one test well and asked the committee to make a decision or base a decision that’s not appropriate. The Chairman said he has other test wells locations that are areas of special concern. She asked how are you going to determine that? You can’t go on a property and tell a homeowner he has to repair unless it failed. The Chairman stated that we need community septic systems. A. Eberly asked how are you going to prove that? The Chairman stated he has new data costing $95,000 regarding Old Colony and it states that O. C. has ground water
pollution. Ms. Eberly asked why are you going to do a community septic system if they can make a repair on their property? The Chairman stated they can not. The O. C. study shows that. I had passed out copies of punp out tickets. I have a hundred of them from Ron Rose. Ms. Eberly interrupted the Chairman asking about the ground water test on ticket 14a and the Chairman responded that he was only talking about tank size and there is no bottom in that tank. Does it tell if it’s failing or polluting? It doesn’t say.
K. Czarnecki said that some residents don’t repair or pump out to meet the standard . Why can’t they be put on notice to repair? The Chairman responded that the law doesn’t require this. We don’t have the authority to do that. Mr. Czarnecki asked why can’t a homeowner repair his system? He stated he repaired his system to correct a problem. It seems we are trying to get the majority to correct something that is only with a minority of homes in the area. The Chairman stated that there are two departments that are involved and the health department allows pollution. Ms. Eberly says that’s not correct. The Chairman said he can show that it does. Ms. Eberly said she can not make a homeowner with a cesspool replace it if the system isn’t failing.
K. Czarnecki said have we ever known how many systems are failing? How many cesspools are there? The Chairman said there are more than one thousand.
The Chairman said the solution is community septic system. If we do nothing we will be mandated to have a sewer. How long should we wait? I wrote a letter explaining why we need community septic systems. Clerk Kavalgian read aloud the Chairman’s letter dated November 17, 2011.
Why Do We need to Promote Community Septic Systems? (sic.)
As a resident of the Town of Old Lyme for 27 years, a member of the Open Space Committee for over 10 years and a member of the WPCA for 14 years, I have come to the conclusion that if we don’t try to make it possible to have a community septic system soon we will be mandated to build sewers.
I will explain why.
As far as I can remember and even before my time in the area R-10 and C-10 zones have had problems with high ground water tables and inadequately small size lots which make it difficult to support any septic system.
The State health code at that time and even now does not require upgrading non-compliant polluting ground water cesspools and septic tanks without bottoms. If the existing septic systems are submerged in ground water it is okay by the State’s health code unless it is leaking out to above the surface.
The Connecticut State Health Department doesn’t like for the WPCA to get involved. They are not considering correcting their policy.
The WPCA has been informed of many problems in our town that should be corrected. Homeowners can not correct many of these problems on their own. In many cases their wastewater goes down and does not come up above the surface because their cesspools are submerged in ground water or they do not have bottoms and the tides take care or their wastewater. These properties have no land available to install even fifty percent compliant septic systems. State health codes allow the Town Health Director to approve repairs of these systems.
I have been criticizing Ron Rose for doing this because homeowners are spending money for all these repairs but their septic systems are still not in compliance. I call it a Band-Aid approach.
But I should admit that Ron Rose has been doing his job according to the State health code requirements.
The State DEEP has a completely different approach to the problems that exist in our Town. They do not tolerate any water pollution period.
They understand that it is not up to the homeowner’s choice or within the homeowner’s ability to solve these problems. The State DEEP would approve 2 choices: community septic systems or public sewers.
As of now 420 houses in Old Lyme – Point of
Woods already have sewers. Old Lyme Shores and Old Colony Beach have finished their studies and could have sewers also. It might happen that all the Beaches and Rogers Lake would need to have sewers too.
Therefore if we offer community septic systems instead of sewers it will benefit our entire town.
Dimitri Tolchinski
Chairman
WPCA Town of Old Lyme (1:34:10)
The Chairman addressed the question to K. Czarnecki does that answer your question? He didn’t agree. People need to have responsibility for their areas and if they have a hardship they would be presenting their problems to us for resolution. He asked why? Do you have properties there? I’m a resident of the town and if I have a problem I have to take care of it. In the meantime there is no enforcement of the current regulations. We need to engage the people not from the top but from the bottom up.
Steve Dix spoke and offered that solutions exist. This is a community issue he said and there are advanced technologies, etc. Ron Rose spoke we have regulations that allow us to do certain things but there has been a change. He tried to get copies of the regulations to all on the commission but the printer failed to get everyone on the same page. He showed maps of a federal court case regarding the beach areas done years ago and the case is already 15 years old. The case says that Old Lyme ordinances take precedence and these are beach communities, summer communities that are supposed to have only one house on a lot but now there are 2-3-4 houses and how it changed no one seems to know. We have to abide by the State health code and these communities have charters they abide by. Residents have an idea… J. Flowers asked B. Curtis … by DEEP standards are the wells polluting? He responded it doesn’t indicate a pollution problem but a sample is hard to determine as houses are
occupied part of the year. Flowers said there is no evidence of it yet. However if these homes are used year-round then he agrees that there will be some pollution if there is a change in use, compliance will be by the
State health code. The definitions he has discussed and A. Eberly discussed today. R. Breunig asked where the high water areas were and he showed them on the map at the meeting. L. Russo read from the Old Colony Beach study. (1:49:49) J. Flowers asked what is the charge of the WPCA, what is the WPCA trying to do? Sewer avoidance or Sewers? He asked a question regarding Hawk’s Nest. If we have an area of special concern do you sewer or is it an issue for WPCA. L. Russo asked question regarding DEEP concerns?
Is the well monitoring ongoing? Does this satisfy DEEP as far as the test results are concerned? The Chairman answered that he spoke with DEEP early on and since then they have not been in touch with us. After we show the slide presentation, perhaps DEEP will respond. A. Eberly asked why do we want that? (1:58:40) If we are able to repair it, why do we want that? The Chairman responded that this does not mean that. He said I stated it in my letter that homeowners can’t fix their problems.. We can fix problems, why do we need to do this? The Chairman responded that there are two agencies with different definitions – DEEP and State health department and the repairs are not in compliance. K. Czarnecki asked how many units in the beach area failing? How many are polluting? How many can be repaired? R. Rose responded that homeowners are reluctant to repair problems as many feel they are getting sewers anyway. The Chairman responded we have agreement, do tests and then
do a study.(many people talking at once) (2:01:50) K. Czarnecki why don’t we have specific numbers so we can use as a basis for discussion? R. Rose why don’t we pass an ordinance that at the sale of a home the cesspool is replaced with a steel tank? (voice I don’t recognize 2: 13:17). L. Russo states that if an association spends $50,000 for a study why can’t they get rid of their cesspools? Chairman stated that ridding of the cesspools doesn’t bring them into compliance. L. Russo… B. Curtis…(same voice I don’t recognize again?) The Chairman stated that in 2 beaches there are over 400 houses that need help, choose homes with the worst problems.
- Brian Curtis – Engineering report and presentation. (2:20:31)
Mr. Curtis gave a run through of the WPCA slide presentation that will be given to the Old Lyme community leaders, December 6, 2011. There will be 25 slides including an explanation of waste water disposal, perimeters for on-site and off-site disposal, soil conditions affecting a system, lot size implications including size and location, nitrogen pollution, municipal sewer system vs. community septic system, environmental impact, local control vs. control outside the town, definition of terms, standards of code, examples and charts and photographs of an existing system for 55 houses in Somers, Connecticut from construction to the finish and maps of areas of concern in Old Lyme.
Everyone present received copies of the presentation with slide copies to be shown at the December meeting. R. Breunig asked what was the cost? B. Curtis didn’t know but would find out.
Treasurer Grogan explained expenditures of $3,354.20 since the last WPCA meeting leaving a balance of $21,258.80.
Pump out report for October 2011 was 60,150 gallons and year-to-date is 238,909 gallons.
R. Breunig suggested that WPCA buy a new voice recorder. A motion was made by A. Eberly, seconded by L. Russo to adjourn. The motion passed unanimously and the meeting adjourned at 10:35 pm.
Respectfully submitted
Myron Kavaslgian
Clerk
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